Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S Thread

Blah.. Blah.. Blah..

Re: Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S Thread

Postby NicholasJay » February 27th, 2012, 7:02 pm

I got a tip that a BRZ was going to be at Herb Gordon Subaru today, so I decided to go and take a peek. It was a Dark Gray Metallic with the Limited (higher spec) trim. I fondled the car for a good hour, and I bought it dinner afterwards.

Here's a link to the myriad of pictures I took of the car:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1070696586 ... 8fo3dif2AE

Video of exhaust note:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1070696586 ... 2193786754

My impressions: The interior looked really nice. The dashboard (excluding the IP hood) was made of a very soft plastic; it's even softer than my Golf's. The rest of the plastic was a bit harder, and the center console felt like the plastic console of the NC.

The shifter felt good in my hands. It has a short throw, and it nicely weighted and direct. The wheel tilts & telescopes, and the seat is adjustable in all kinds of ways. Still, with the seat in its driving position (for me), I wasn't really able to sit behind myself.

The rear seat is not split; it folds down as one piece. The front seats felt really nice, but the side bolsters were already showing the start of creasing in the leather. The view out the back was decent, and not nearly as bad as the other cars I've been sitting in recently.

Let me know if you need more info.
This space is intentionally left blank... Or is it?
User avatar
NicholasJay
Board Member
 
Posts: 1425
Joined: October 14th, 2007, 4:47 pm
Location: Severn, MD

Re: Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S Thread

Postby Areddi » February 27th, 2012, 7:23 pm

Awesome pics and video, love getting good information.
User avatar
Areddi
Contributing Member
 
Posts: 368
Joined: September 19th, 2011, 11:13 pm
Location: Columbia, MD

Re: Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S Thread

Postby NicholasJay » February 27th, 2012, 8:10 pm

This guy is apparently 6'3"

Image

Image

Image
This space is intentionally left blank... Or is it?
User avatar
NicholasJay
Board Member
 
Posts: 1425
Joined: October 14th, 2007, 4:47 pm
Location: Severn, MD

Re: Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S Thread

Postby mj71 » February 28th, 2012, 7:29 am

NicholasJay wrote:This guy is apparently 6'3"

Headroom is much more dependent on torso length than total height.
Mike J.
'90 B-package
'93 A-package
Live free or move to MD.
User avatar
mj71
Officer
 
Posts: 1768
Joined: February 16th, 2004, 10:22 am
Location: Hampstead, MD

Re: Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S Thread

Postby prostwest » February 28th, 2012, 10:34 am

And butt thickness. I knew a heavy guy that was about five two- but was eye to eye with six footers when they were both sitting. Long torso, short legs, tall ass.
Signature:
This is a block 1996 of text Montego that can be added to Torsen posts you Racing Beat Big Bar make. There Koni is Koni a Koni 350 Koni character limit
User avatar
prostwest
Board Member
 
Posts: 3865
Joined: March 13th, 2006, 10:10 am
Location: Canton

Re: Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S Thread

Postby NicholasJay » March 1st, 2012, 12:55 pm

My order has been placed. I have an email confirmation with my order number. I was first in line at Herb Gordon Subaru. I'm looking forward to test driving this car.

Image
This space is intentionally left blank... Or is it?
User avatar
NicholasJay
Board Member
 
Posts: 1425
Joined: October 14th, 2007, 4:47 pm
Location: Severn, MD

Re: Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S Thread

Postby bill_keksz » March 3rd, 2012, 7:21 am

Might need a diposable splitter, Grimmy.
User avatar
bill_keksz
Contributing Member
 
Posts: 6500
Joined: October 29th, 2001, 8:38 pm
Location: Edgewater, MD

Re: Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S Thread

Postby Areddi » March 3rd, 2012, 8:59 am

NicholasJay wrote:My order has been placed. I have an email confirmation with my order number. I was first in line at Herb Gordon Subaru. I'm looking forward to test driving this car.

Image


That's awesome, I really think these things are gonna be cool, and I think the aftermarket will take off big time.
User avatar
Areddi
Contributing Member
 
Posts: 368
Joined: September 19th, 2011, 11:13 pm
Location: Columbia, MD

Re: Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S Thread

Postby 91BRG » March 3rd, 2012, 10:21 am

Nick, are they asking for a dealer markup or full MSRP?
--------------------------------------------
John - 1991 BRG SE #2042, born 02/05/91, 11:30 am + '05 Lotus Elise seats
User avatar
91BRG
Contributing Member
 
Posts: 2771
Joined: February 12th, 2009, 12:14 am
Location: Bawlmer, Hon

Re: Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S Thread

Postby Katya4me » March 26th, 2012, 5:12 am

Interesting WSJ article about the BRZ: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 08538.html
WDCR Solo Registration Chief and MSCW Autox Coordinator
Katya4me
 
Posts: 88
Joined: April 20th, 2006, 12:58 pm
Location: NoVA

Re: Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S Thread

Postby NicholasJay » March 27th, 2012, 8:17 am

91BRG wrote:Nick, are they asking for a dealer markup or full MSRP?


The dealer I went with promised invoice + $800.


A bunch a reviews have been posted:

http://www.insideline.com/subaru/brz/20 ... video.html
http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/dr ... index.html
http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/drive ... subaru-brz
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/cou ... irst_test/
http://www.autoweek.com/article/2012032 ... /120329931
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 08538.html

And for bench-racers:

Code: Select all
0-60 MPH: 6.4, 7.0 (7.3 w/out rollout)
1/4 mile: 14.9 @ 95.5, 15.3 @ 92.1
Slalom:   69.1
Skidpad:  0.92, 0.90


Also, reports are stating that the car will start shipping from Japan on April 20th.
This space is intentionally left blank... Or is it?
User avatar
NicholasJay
Board Member
 
Posts: 1425
Joined: October 14th, 2007, 4:47 pm
Location: Severn, MD

Re: Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S Thread

Postby Areddi » March 27th, 2012, 9:15 am

Can't wait to see(and hopefully drive) one in person
User avatar
Areddi
Contributing Member
 
Posts: 368
Joined: September 19th, 2011, 11:13 pm
Location: Columbia, MD

Re: Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S Thread

Postby skeeler » March 27th, 2012, 10:22 am

I'm looking forward to seeing and driving the car, too. All the reviews make it sound like like a 4-seat, fixed-roof Miata.
Michael

'09: DD & STR. '95: HPDE. '04 MSM: Sold. '10 Mazda3: Hers.
User avatar
skeeler
Contributing Member
 
Posts: 865
Joined: February 12th, 2008, 1:43 pm
Location: Montgomery Village, MD

Re: Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S Thread

Postby Aure » March 27th, 2012, 2:06 pm

Nick, do you plan on taking it to an autocross one of those days?
STR-prepped 95 Miata. Now ready to kick ass!
User avatar
Aure
Contributing Member
 
Posts: 378
Joined: October 26th, 2009, 11:19 am

Re: Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S Thread

Postby NicholasJay » March 29th, 2012, 1:51 pm

Aure wrote:Nick, do you plan on taking it to an autocross one of those days?


Absolutely! I am looking forward to the attention the car will get for the first couple of months.

Also, an (apparently) well respectd Subaru tuner called RaceComp Engineering got its hands on a Limited BRZ and they posted a driving review of it, along with some pictures of the car on RCE lowering springs. The entire review (and pictures) can be seen here: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4535

The review is absolutely glowing, but an interesting part was this:

2749 lbs with full tank, 2714 lbs with spare tire removed and 2650 lbs with 1/8 of a tank


And that's on the upper level trim that supposed to weigh 16lbs more than the base trim. Other autocross-centric reviews state that the exhaust looks pretty heavy and that a smaller one should be a lot lighter. Add in a LiOn battery, and you're well on the way to a sub 2600 lb autocrosser.

Skeeler, any idea on how much Zelda weighs?
This space is intentionally left blank... Or is it?
User avatar
NicholasJay
Board Member
 
Posts: 1425
Joined: October 14th, 2007, 4:47 pm
Location: Severn, MD

Re: Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S Thread

Postby bill_keksz » March 30th, 2012, 4:39 am

Funny, it doesn't look particularly lowered in those pics.
Still a bi puzzled by the Mustangish weight distribution.
User avatar
bill_keksz
Contributing Member
 
Posts: 6500
Joined: October 29th, 2001, 8:38 pm
Location: Edgewater, MD

Re: Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S Thread

Postby skeeler » March 30th, 2012, 8:24 am

bill_keksz wrote:Funny, it doesn't look particularly lowered in those pics.
Still a bi puzzled by the Mustangish weight distribution.


The car is only lowered something like 20 mm.

Do you mean how it's 53% front? Although there's lots of talk about how far down and back the engine has been moved relative to an Imprezza, it's still sitting right on top of the front axle; since the boxer is so wide, it can't be moved much further back than that without interfering with the footwells. The other downside to the boxer (width) is that it essentially necessitates Mac struts in the front.

The upside to the boxer is an extremely low center of gravity. Apparently the center of the engine is a knee height. I'm very curious to see this car in person. That will give me a much better feel for its overall size and lowness.
Michael

'09: DD & STR. '95: HPDE. '04 MSM: Sold. '10 Mazda3: Hers.
User avatar
skeeler
Contributing Member
 
Posts: 865
Joined: February 12th, 2008, 1:43 pm
Location: Montgomery Village, MD

Re: Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S Thread

Postby skeeler » March 30th, 2012, 8:26 am

NicholasJay wrote:
2749 lbs with full tank, 2714 lbs with spare tire removed and 2650 lbs with 1/8 of a tank


And that's on the upper level trim that supposed to weigh 16lbs more than the base trim. Other autocross-centric reviews state that the exhaust looks pretty heavy and that a smaller one should be a lot lighter. Add in a LiOn battery, and you're well on the way to a sub 2600 lb autocrosser.

Skeeler, any idea on how much Zelda weighs?


Those numbers are pretty consistant with Subaru's stated curb weight.

Zelda's right around 2400 with a full tank, I believe. I think she must have been below the published curb weight of 2511 in stock form.
Michael

'09: DD & STR. '95: HPDE. '04 MSM: Sold. '10 Mazda3: Hers.
User avatar
skeeler
Contributing Member
 
Posts: 865
Joined: February 12th, 2008, 1:43 pm
Location: Montgomery Village, MD

Re: Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S Thread

Postby NicholasJay » March 30th, 2012, 8:51 am

skeeler wrote:
NicholasJay wrote:Those numbers are pretty consistant with Subaru's stated curb weight.

Zelda's right around 2400 with a full tank, I believe. I think she must have been below the published curb weight of 2511 in stock form.


I guess its a psychological threshold kind of thing to get it down to the next 2x00 lbs area. I'm glad to hear you've gotten Zelda down that far. As far as strict weight-saving maneuvers, what have you done? Off the top of my head I can only think of the exhaust and the new battery.

skeeler wrote:

The upside to the boxer is an extremely low center of gravity. Apparently the center of the engine is a knee height. I'm very curious to see this car in person. That will give me a much better feel for its overall size and lowness.


I don't know if you saw these pics, but they help. The Miata pictured is on some sort of FCM setup. The 800 px width limit on the forum prevents me from displaying the pictures directly.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hp ... 7226_n.jpg]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hp ... 7660_n.jpg
This space is intentionally left blank... Or is it?
User avatar
NicholasJay
Board Member
 
Posts: 1425
Joined: October 14th, 2007, 4:47 pm
Location: Severn, MD

Re: Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S Thread

Postby thebeerbaron » March 30th, 2012, 8:58 am

skeeler wrote:Do you mean how it's 53% front? Although there's lots of talk about how far down and back the engine has been moved relative to an Imprezza, it's still sitting right on top of the front axle; since the boxer is so wide, it can't be moved much further back than that without interfering with the footwells. The other downside to the boxer (width) is that it essentially necessitates Mac struts in the front.

The upside to the boxer is an extremely low center of gravity. Apparently the center of the engine is a knee height. I'm very curious to see this car in person. That will give me a much better feel for its overall size and lowness.


Other downsides to the boxer include the fact that doing anything on the heads is nearly impossible with the engine in the car. Spark plugs and valve cover gaskets are fun. And changing a mile long timing belt is fun too. Four cams to hold in perfect sync! (Don't f it up, not only are the valves happy to hit the piston, they're happy to hit each other too!). And there are not one but two head gaskets!

The "extreme" lowness of the boxer is offset by the huge intake manifold that sits on top of it. On an NA car it's probably better than my top-mount intercooled boxer, but it's still a massive hunk of metal sitting up high. I think I measured it once and the boxer, with intake manifold, was at least as tall as my Miata engine.

Can you tell I'm not enamored with the boxer? ;)
Black 94C with the "track-ish" package.

Buy "my" beer!
User avatar
thebeerbaron
Consultant
 
Posts: 2653
Joined: March 5th, 2005, 1:19 am
Location: Simi Valley, CA

Re: Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S Thread

Postby mj71 » March 30th, 2012, 9:03 am

thebeerbaron wrote:And changing a mile long timing belt is fun too.

No it's not. Not even a little bit. I can't tell you the number of times that right as I was almost complete, one cam would spin a single tooth. :sly:
Mike J.
'90 B-package
'93 A-package
Live free or move to MD.
User avatar
mj71
Officer
 
Posts: 1768
Joined: February 16th, 2004, 10:22 am
Location: Hampstead, MD

Re: Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S Thread

Postby NicholasJay » March 30th, 2012, 9:24 am

The FA20 (in the BRZ) and the FB20 (in the Impreza) are both chain driven.
This space is intentionally left blank... Or is it?
User avatar
NicholasJay
Board Member
 
Posts: 1425
Joined: October 14th, 2007, 4:47 pm
Location: Severn, MD

Re: Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S Thread

Postby prostwest » March 30th, 2012, 9:37 am

thebeerbaron wrote:
The "extreme" lowness of the boxer is offset by the huge intake manifold that sits on top of it. On an NA car it's probably better than my top-mount intercooled boxer, but it's still a massive hunk of metal sitting up high. I think I measured it once and the boxer, with intake manifold, was at least as tall as my Miata engine.


Yeah, but it's aluminum and composite tubing up there, as opposed to a block of cast iron with a few passages machined into it and two solid steel rods perched atop. It's like saying the Gossamer Condor must need as much takeoff power as a 727 because they have the same wingspan. I'd actually be very curious to find if there are any hard numbers on the center of mass of a Suboxer vs a typical I-4. Also, what about the length? Don't forget about polar moment of inertia.
Signature:
This is a block 1996 of text Montego that can be added to Torsen posts you Racing Beat Big Bar make. There Koni is Koni a Koni 350 Koni character limit
User avatar
prostwest
Board Member
 
Posts: 3865
Joined: March 13th, 2006, 10:10 am
Location: Canton

Re: Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S Thread

Postby thebeerbaron » March 30th, 2012, 10:08 am

NicholasJay wrote:The FA20 (in the BRZ) and the FB20 (in the Impreza) are both chain driven.


Didn't realize Subaru had anything except the EJ engines. Chain will be nice. Still not maintenance-free though :)

prostwest wrote:Yeah, but it's aluminum and composite tubing up there, as opposed to a block of cast iron with a few passages machined into it and two solid steel rods perched atop. It's like saying the Gossamer Condor must need as much takeoff power as a 727 because they have the same wingspan.


Not sure what the IM is made out of, but it's no lighter than a Miata head. I would expect the CG to be lower on the boxer, sure. But I doubt it's as far off as it's been made out to be.

I'd actually be very curious to find if there are any hard numbers on the center of mass of a Suboxer vs a typical I-4. Also, what about the length? Don't forget about polar moment of inertia.


As would I. It's a freakishly short engine, but in my application (not a BRZ/FR-S), it's miles in front of the front wheels. And as Skeeler points out, it's further back in the new thing. But not too far back, due to its odd shape. A fully piped engine is compact fore/aft, but substantial vertically and horizontally.
Black 94C with the "track-ish" package.

Buy "my" beer!
User avatar
thebeerbaron
Consultant
 
Posts: 2653
Joined: March 5th, 2005, 1:19 am
Location: Simi Valley, CA

Re: Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S Thread

Postby skeeler » March 30th, 2012, 10:35 am

NicholasJay wrote:I don't know if you saw these pics, but they help. The Miata pictured is on some sort of FCM setup. The 800 px width limit on the forum prevents me from displaying the pictures directly.


Thanks. I hadn't seen those, though I have seen some overlays with the NC, S2000, and so on. It really is small for a modern 2+2. Only a little bigger than an NC and smaller than an RX-8.
Michael

'09: DD & STR. '95: HPDE. '04 MSM: Sold. '10 Mazda3: Hers.
User avatar
skeeler
Contributing Member
 
Posts: 865
Joined: February 12th, 2008, 1:43 pm
Location: Montgomery Village, MD

Re: Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S Thread

Postby skeeler » March 30th, 2012, 10:58 am

prostwest wrote:I'd actually be very curious to find if there are any hard numbers on the center of mass of a Suboxer vs a typical I-4. Also, what about the length? Don't forget about polar moment of inertia.


Subaru/Toyota claim the CoG is 460 mm off the ground, which is lower than an NCs and, depending on what you read, comparable to or lower than a Boxster/Cayman or 458 Italia. I don't have numbers for those cars, though.

Yeah, low CoG is good, but, as I implied before, this is not a front-mid-engined car, like the NC.
Michael

'09: DD & STR. '95: HPDE. '04 MSM: Sold. '10 Mazda3: Hers.
User avatar
skeeler
Contributing Member
 
Posts: 865
Joined: February 12th, 2008, 1:43 pm
Location: Montgomery Village, MD

Re: Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S Thread

Postby prostwest » March 30th, 2012, 11:04 am

I'm more More interested in the powertrains, not the overall car with all the complicating factors.

WRX intake 22-dressed intake manifold with wiring/tb

Miata head 44.6 pounds on a Weight Watchers digital scale, including the camshafts and sprockets

Just playing devil's advocate, you know me.

I do see that the length issue is complex- if you make an engine shorter, but then have to push all its mass to forward of the mid-line of an I-4, you've actually made the polar moment worse.
Signature:
This is a block 1996 of text Montego that can be added to Torsen posts you Racing Beat Big Bar make. There Koni is Koni a Koni 350 Koni character limit
User avatar
prostwest
Board Member
 
Posts: 3865
Joined: March 13th, 2006, 10:10 am
Location: Canton

Re: Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S Thread

Postby bill_keksz » March 30th, 2012, 11:08 am

I saw a supposedly measured 56.5/ 43.5%. I think Ford advertises 55/45 for the Boss 302; not quite the same beast, admittedly. 53/47 is one thing, 56/44 is another. Miatas have pretty much been at 52/48 since conception.

Ref:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4287

I'm pretty sure the Toybaru intake manifold is plastic.

Near as I can tell suspension is from the Imprezza parts bin. Lack of adjustability, LSD & nose bias makes me think they're aiming for drifting rather than AX as the intended motorsport.
But adjustable parts can be added, although such tweaks require a bit more thought and work than, say, merely firming up an NC's suspension.

I'm still interested in the car, just would want some real feedback, and a test drive, before putting any money in.
Last edited by bill_keksz on March 30th, 2012, 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
bill_keksz
Contributing Member
 
Posts: 6500
Joined: October 29th, 2001, 8:38 pm
Location: Edgewater, MD

Re: Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S Thread

Postby NicholasJay » March 30th, 2012, 11:13 am

skeeler wrote:Yeah, low CoG is good, but, as I implied before, this is not a front-mid-engined car, like the NC.


Here's a pic to illustrate. The engine is close to being all behind the front axle, but not quite.

Image
This space is intentionally left blank... Or is it?
User avatar
NicholasJay
Board Member
 
Posts: 1425
Joined: October 14th, 2007, 4:47 pm
Location: Severn, MD

Re: Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S Thread

Postby thebeerbaron » March 30th, 2012, 11:48 am

prostwest wrote:Just playing devil's advocate, you know me.


Whereas I'm just looking for flaws... Works good.

Didn't realize the difference in weights was so big. It must have been a while since I lugged my spare Miata head around.

That engine is pretty darn far back. Definitely wouldn't want to service it though!
Black 94C with the "track-ish" package.

Buy "my" beer!
User avatar
thebeerbaron
Consultant
 
Posts: 2653
Joined: March 5th, 2005, 1:19 am
Location: Simi Valley, CA

PreviousNext

Return to Banter

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron