Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S Thread

[ChristianL]

Didn't realize the difference in weights was so big. It must have been a while since I lugged my spare Miata head around.

Even with how light the Miata is, moving parts of it by hand gives a real appreciation for weight savings. A door feels light to close, but is incredibly heavy to carry. The drivetrain seems diminutive until you have to move it off a trailer and under a car without a hoist. Two people (with the combined strength of me and Jason) can pick up the front end of a Miata, but not for long.

Stuff like that is what makes me appreciate engineered lightness, and makes me happy to go to town on a Miata chassis with a hole saw.

[NicholasJay]

That engine is pretty darn far back. Definitely wouldn't want to service it though!

Here's a pic I took of the back of the engine.

[91BRG]

That engine is pretty darn far back. Definitely wouldn't want to service it though!

Here's a pic I took of the back of the engine.

Yikes - that's not going to be an 'engine out' for every service kind of setup is it? Think Fiero spark plugs.

[91BRG]

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/cou ... html#photo

This makes it look a bit better

[bill_keksz]

Can't really tell from the pic how much room is back there, although I agree that width vs. footwell may be a constraint. Too bad thay felt compelled to put in the limited-use rear seats.
While I do not agree that the width required struts, I'm not that against struts. It's just that most manufactureres do not make them as adjustable as they could be.
Offset bushings and tophats can fix that, but takes you out of stock class, if you care about that.

What's the wheel size?

[skeeler]

I'm not that against struts. It's just that most manufactureres do not make them as adjustable as they could be.
Offset bushings and tophats can fix that, but takes you out of stock class, if you care about that.

What's the wheel size?

You can use aftermarket parts to dial in acceptable static camber, but strut cars typically exhibit camber loss under compression.

Stock wheels on the BRZ/FR-S are 17x7---same size as NC 6MT---though the tires are 215/45-17s (10 mm wider than NC). I think the 86/GT 86 has a 16-inch option in other markets.

[Rumnhammer]

Yikes - that's not going to be an 'engine out' for every service kind of setup is it? Think Fiero spark plugs.[/quote]

Probably not, on a scooby engine, the only thing back there is usually the turbo, hopefully they made more room, between the engine and frame rails on this car then an impreza so servicing the spark plugs and injectors is easier. I wonder how they will swing room for a turbo if that is an option later. Probably make room on the firewall.

Chris Rummel

[bill_keksz]

...You can use aftermarket parts to dial in acceptable static camber, but strut cars typically exhibit camber loss under compression...

True, and lowering makes it worse. but one woud expect proper OEM deign, at least for a performance application, that would be corrected. How does BMW or Porsche angle the A-arms? Or do they rely on caster to create camber?
Surprisingly, our Outback gets less positive with compression at the front, at least for about the first 3cm or so . But it has other issues, particularly at the rear, with weird toe changes in the multilink; aligning for static toe-out increases stability.
Not sure about regular Legacies.
Subie tuners seem to emphasize increasing caster front, and more sway bar rear; the latter certainly helped ours.
The Toybaru's reversed A-arms will be interesting.

[bill_keksz]

MotorSport is also all giggly about it.
Especially liked the lightness imparted by the Prius tires.
Not a full test, though.

Personally, I wasn't crazy abot these tires on the ct200h we drove the other day, may have been undreinflated. Somewhat different animal. Very nice seats, BTW. Comfy and supportive, with enough lumbar support. Ironically, lots of lateral support.

[Aure]

Low grip tires make the car more fun to drive Reminds me of this.

Nick, what's the ETA for yours?

[NicholasJay]

Low grip tires make the car more fun to drive Reminds me of this.

Nick, what's the ETA for yours?

The ETA hasn't been officially announced, but the cars are scheduled to be shipped to the US on April 20th. So, 2-3 weeks after that, I'd imagine.

The tires aren't exactly low-grip. Lower-than-I'd-want is a better term. They are Summer GT tires that are also used on a bunch of BMW, Mercedes and Audi cars. As far as I'm concerned, they'll be traded out for extreme performance Summer tires as some point.

[NicholasJay]

The US prices for the BRZ have been announced:

http://media.subaru.com/index.php?s=43&item=313

Premium
MT $25,495
AT $26,595

Limited
MT $27,495
AT $28,595

Prices are MSRP before $750 destination charge.

[skeeler]

The FR-S with MT is 24,930, but that includes 730 for delivery, as far as I can tell, so the relevant number for comparison is 24,200, right?

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4328

So the difference in MSRP is 1,295, but there's no haggling at Scion dealers, so I'd expect you can get the BRZ for very close to the FR-S price, and the BRZ includes some additional comfort-and-convenience features. Too bad about the grill.

[NicholasJay]

So the difference in MSRP is 1,295, but there's no haggling at Scion dealers, so I'd expect you can get the BRZ for very close to the FR-S price, and the BRZ includes some additional comfort-and-convenience features. Too bad about the grill.

Yeah, it's about $1300 difference at MSRP. And there's no reason why Scions can't sell at above or below MSRP. The Pure Pricing policy states that whatever price the dealer advertises the car at has to be the price they sell the car to anyone who walks in the door. If they want to mark it up or reduce the price, they can.

I agree about the grille, though.

[bill_keksz]

Kerry and I are doing the Scion event today, 9am so maybe we won't be meeting many of the Scion demographic types...
C&D went gaga in the latest issue, driving the BRZ in France. They did notice the torque dip. The noseheaviness didn't seem to bother them. In their comparison table, the V6 Mustang trounced it, numerically.

[basedriver]

Which Scion event?

[bill_keksz]

https://www.eventbrite.com/event/340502 ... event_name

[basedriver]

Got it. Thanks. Signed up for 10-11.

[bill_keksz]

Surprise! Free caps! And a, um, very-well-defined course.
Cars were all TRD'd up - springs(slight saggy butt to my eye), exhaust, & Yoko S.drive tires.
All auto trannies, which shifted imperceptibly, I did not try manual mode.
Steering was direct, although somewhat muted in feel. Quite a bit of understeer, but they probably tuned that in on purpose. Brakes were a bit sudden, but easy to modulate.
Sound was quite pleasant, inside & outside.
The muted interior, even the seat and its (manual) controls, was very VW-ish, meant as a positive. Rear seats are, as pointed out elsewhere, of little use unless folded down (lowers the CG, of course).

Kerry likes red, with everything that was on the cars we drove. Plus seat heat...

[jdf]

Well, dang. They actually have one slot available-- fifteen minutes from now. I think I'll decide not to break any land speed records getting to the stadium. Too bad it's not at FedEx Field, I could get there in fifteen with ten minutes to spare.

[NicholasJay]

I just got an email from my dealership. I now have a VIN and an ETA of May 31st, give or take.

[Aure]

I am as impatient as you are!

[NicholasJay]

I am picking it up tonight.

[Areddi]

Can't wait to see it!

[skeeler]

Can't wait to see it!

As they say on the internet, +1.

[basedriver]

Will it be at Greenbelt tomorrow?

[NicholasJay]

Will it be at Greenbelt tomorrow?

You'll see it next Tuesday.

[NicholasJay]

Posted on The Car Lounge:

I think I'm the first person on TCL that put his money where is mouth is and bought a BRZ. I've had it on order for months, and it came in today. I was the first in line at my dealership.

The car is awesome, it's a great driver. I can't wait to see what it will do after I get everything broken in.

Yes, it's not as fast in a straight line, but it sure is faster than my 2 Miatas, my E30 325is, and my Golf TDI (which are my most recent vehicles).

The torque is very flat. I even passed a couple of people going uphill on the highway.

This is my first time seeing a Premium BRZ in real life (I have only seen Limiteds). The cloth interior is very nice, and the interior is better than the pictures suggest. The only thing that I'd like from the Limited is the silver trim around the HVAC controls.

I'm just getting used to the car. It'll be fun to see how it handles the back roads I usually drive the Miata on.

As far as price goes: I paid Invoice + $800. That's about $300 under MSRP.


Bring on the love; bring on the hate. I'll be out driving my new sports car.

[bill_keksz]

So far, the much-discussed torque dip isn't noticable?

[NicholasJay]

So far, the much-discussed torque dip isn't noticable?

So far. But I usually shift by 3500 -4000 rpms so I don't even know if I'm reaching it.