Epic Rant about Wayne, Owner of Allpoint Auto

[mj71]

This is going to be long, but please hang in there to avoid mistakes I've made.

Late in January I bought phranquelynn's cage out of his wrecked Spec. Miata. He had the cage removed by Wayne and it was residing at Wayne's shop. I contacted Wayne about transplanting it into my Miata.

Wayne made a lot of noise about the transplanted cage not being SCCA legal since it had to be cut in two to transplant into my Miata. I made some inquiries with the WDCR-SCCA Time Trials staff and was told that sleeveing the cuts would be A-OK for Time Trials. I informed Wayne of this judgement and he accepted the work.

Smash-cut to six months later. After dozens of calls and dozens of excuses, I was told by Wayne that today, 8/3, he only had one more back leg to weld in and he "saw no reason why" I couldn't pick it up today. He said that he'd call between 1 and 2 today.

2 came and went and I decided to head down to the shop since I'd rented a U-Haul car trailer for the pickup.

I arrived about 3:45 to find the shop closed. Front door was dead-bolted and repeated knocks yielded nothing. I walked around to the side door and knocked several times again. After no answer, I peeked in and found this:


I've circled in the picture the top tube of the roll-bar. I'm 99% sure it's about 4" low, which is consistent with the cut-out bar just sitting on the floor. I can't see any back support tubes either.

This has led me to the conclusion that I've been lied to for the past six months. I've been given excuses of three welder failures, including a unit catching on fire, a flash fire in the car while he was welding that scorched his corneas, taking him out of the game for a month or more. Yesterday he mentioned that an impact socket exploded and hit him in the forehead. I've also been given status updates along the way such as, "I've completed the new mounting boxes." and, "It's all tacked together, I just need to complete all the welds."

I'm beyond angry. In hindsight, his protests to the SCCA legality were likely a veiled "I don't want this job" protests, but he could have just told me. At any time along the way he could have bailed. Instead he chose to lead me on. I've missed three Time Trial events, and likely a fourth. I'm possibly out $500 for a cage I purchased, but will cost more to have someone else install than to just buy a new bolt-in cage. (phranquelynn, no animosity here. You did the sale in good-faith.)

I'm going to confront him on Monday if he answers the phone. I've had a couple of offers to accompany me down to retrieve the car. I'm hoping to get it home in the next week.

Please do not give this man any more business. He's been a 'friend' to the club in the past, but this is beyond excusable.

[JULI]

Mike,

I'm going to answer the question about the rollcage, if you were willing to spend the money for that thing
then a rollcage cut in two is illegal. SCCA would pass it for time trial but not club racing or club trials. Do
yourself a favor and have said this time and time again for rollcages, PIPER is the choice of everyone that
has 3500.00 to throw for a rollcage. Take the car to Windsor Customs, Chris designs his cages and
they have been tested and they survive. Chris does really good work and he knows SCCA ruling, he's a
tech inspector.
What you paid for was for scrap pipe, it cant be used again for the purpose of a rollcage. As for Wayne,
that is a different can of worms, he made a comment to me a while ago and I lost all respect for the
man. He said that MAZDA would be leaving the country like Izuzu and be bankrupt in a few years. I know
he has butchered a few jobs in the past and has left people with cars going to junk yards instead of the
road with the owner.
Go get your car and cut the loss. take the miata to someone that knows what they are doing.
Just saying

[JULI]

as for a "friend" of the club, anyone will be a "friend" if you are paying them.. what kind of "friend" is the
real question. I know for a fact Wayne started about the same time I was at Ourisman, I saw that
the dealership supported the club, but what started sending me through the roof was people would
get an estimate from me and Wayne would cut throat the estimate. Ourisman got a little tired and
just recended their support.
Lets face it you get what you pay for, so if you wanted cheap and somewhat right you went to Waynes.
You wanted right with Mazda parts and Mazda trained technicians you came to me and it was backed
with a nationwide 12 month and 12000 mile warranty.

[REDFUN]

Sorry it sounds like things are not working out so well at the shop. IMHO just take the car home and figure out what to do from their. It's not worth the aggravation.

Bob,

[cptvictor03]

Juli,

And we miss you at Ourisman Juli.

I now take all of our Mazda's (3, 5 and Miata) to Far East Motors, an independent shop, because of our last experience with Ourisman. Tried to force me into purchasing rear links when it ended up being a rear shock that was improperly installed.

They finally did us right by doing the warranty work. But if I hadn't asked the questions and pushed a little it would have been more money out of pocket.

[stpete]

I've talked to a number of racers who have moved a welded in cage from one car to another after a crash. So it is possible somehow. Probably not this way though.

[JULI]

It is legal to move a roll cage from one car to another, that is true but the main hoop can't be cut in half. Then moved to the other car.

[gottspd]

Definitely contact chris Windsor. He stands behind his work and is a good person.

[mj71]

I'll be contacting Chris on Monday.

[mj71]

I need some clarification, and may be able to provide some more.

My understanding of what Wayne was going to do was to cut the top hoop on the sides and then sleeve those cuts as well as the legs.

Juli. When you say "Main Hoop," you mean the vertical one behind the seats, right? If so, it's my understanding that it would not be cut as part of the transplant.

[mj71]

Got the car back from Wayne today without incident. Overall, I'm glad he didn't actually do the install. He did in-fact cut the main hoop. Even if tech missed it, I wouldn't have driven the car.

There are the start of two pads on the passenger side that I'll have to plasma cut out, but other than that, no work was done.

I talked with Chris Windsor at his shop today and he has a customer car with a Hard Dog bolt-in cage installed. The customer is going to have Chris install a custom cage. I may end up buying the Hard Dog. Anyone have any experience with them? Seems decent to me.

[thebeerbaron]

Got the car back from Wayne today without incident.

Was it necessary to surgically remove your foot from his.... ?

[mj71]

Was it necessary to surgically remove your foot from his.... ?

It would have been, but his head was in the way.

[lil red]

he's got some good excuses....so how many times did he loose power and couldn't get teh car off the lift?
Waynes good at what he does......if only he could concentrate on one thing at a time .
Been there done that. He had my van for a few months for a transmission replacement. It only took 3 or 4 transmissions before he got it right. At the time, he was all I could afford. When your on a tight budget, you go with the lowest bidder. Waynes the only one that found the major oil leak issue with the 6, which was traced back to MAZDA! for cracking the valve cover then sealing it with silicone. Thanks to Mazda for their fine service, I now drive a Camry.

[skeeler]

I was very dissatisfied with Wayne the last time I had him work on my car. It took him over a year to remove the engine, have it rebuilt, reinstall it, replace the control arms, and seam-weld the engine bay only. (Despite my request, he didn't seam-weld the door sills or passenger compartment.) During that year+, I called him often, and his estimates of when the car would be done always proved ridiculously optimistic. HIs work on that car was neither fast nor inexpensive nor particularly good.

[JULI]

I was very dissatisfied with Wayne the last time I had him work on my car. It took him over a year to remove the engine, have it rebuilt, reinstall it, replace the control arms, and seam-weld the engine bay only. (Despite my request, he didn't seam-weld the door sills or passenger compartment.) During that year+, I called him often, and his estimates of when the car would be done always proved ridiculously optimistic. HIs work on that car was neither fast nor inexpensive nor particularly good.

really?? Honestly, as much as it pains me to say this why did you not contact Mike Collins or Al Bell, they
are members, so is Chris Winsor for that matter, Wayne is NOT a miata or MAZDA familiar technician.
Seriously, I have NEVER seen Wayne up at Summit point but I have seen Ed York, Chris and well Mike, and
well Al is a ghost you might see him in a fleeting moment. Between the three of them and Ed York has
the Dyno to tune or de-tune the engine, Mike Collins has more NA miata parts than I have ever seen
and Chris Windsor has a full shop.
I know everyone wants a good deal and to save money, but seriously, Wayne was never the answer, if
you are hitting the track or building a track toy. I would have contacted the three major builders for it
Mike Collins and Ed York are the top specialist for the legal aspects of SM/SM5 and ITA. Chris Windsor
is the rep for SSM and a top runner of the SM5.

[JULI]

If you really want the truth Wayne screwed up a member's car really bad, I quoted the member about
$1100.00 to fix their miata. It dealt with calipers and the wheel hubs and bearings, this is with 25%
off parts and labor that Ourisman used to give CAR members. Nope instead the member when to Waynes
and he bashed the hell out of Ourisman, me and that quote saying we were taking advantage of the
guy.
Fast forward 3 months later and a rather sad miata came limping back to Ourisman, actually it came
on a flatbed because it had left Wayne's shop with more damage than it had when we had seen it. The
member profusely apolized for going to Wayne's in the first place but Wayne got the estimate to $750.00.
So you get what you pay for..

[lil red]

well it only took him 3 months and I think it was 5 transmissions before he finally got it right with my van.
Even then I had to zip tie the splash pan back on since he seemed to forget about screwing it back on. My wife swore he drove it to Mexico since he had it so long. But like Julie said, cheaper is not always better....but when you get quoted a low ball price, it's kind of hard to say no.

[mph]

Wayne has over 45 years of experience, present shop was opened in 1988

He started racing in the early 70s and has raced in SCCA as well as other forms of racing.

We was a instructor at Summit Point for years.

Remember Wayne's All Points Auto Service is a one person business. He does all the work and has:

No admin staff to answer the phones
No accounting staff for customers/vendors
No parts department staff
No cleaning staff
and no service writers

If the parts are not deliverable or not supplied with the car he has to shut the shop down and go get them.

Would any shop or dealer allow a car to be stored for 6 months for free? Would a dealer install after market parts?

Did you offer to locate/provide the pipe -- How many times did you stop by?

[mj71]

Did you offer to locate/provide the pipe -- How many times did you stop by?

No, I did not. I was not expecting a 3-day turn-around. I did not stop by, but called at least weekly. Every call I was informed of progress, or if there was none an unbelievable excuse was provided. I gave him the benefit of the doubt for six months.

You're missing my real issue which makes his experience moot. HE KNOWINGLY AND CONSISTENTLY LIED TO A CUSTOMER. If I did that to my customers, they should fire me too and tell all their friends.

I feel sorry for him. He's obviously a nice guy, but something has changed in his personality/life that has made it OK for him to be dishonest. I urged him to take care of himself as I left, and I truly meant it.

[Cutter]

I had a pretty bad experience there where I spent thousands on brakes and maintenence only to have to replace the rotors and a caliper he replaced after like 2 months of use. I have to wonder if the water pump/timing belt job was legit. I heard some great excusses too. But I haven't set foot in there in over a year. I did like he seemed to be a colorful chap with exciting racing tales.

As for these other guys, do we have a stick thread somewhere with their contact info and location? I've been out to Chris Windsor's place way back in the day. I'd use him for all sorts of stuff if he wasn't so far away (way out in Thurmont/Frederick on rt. 15).